12:00 -!- jds2001 changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora BugZappers meeting - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Meetings/Agenda-2008-Feb-06 12:01 < jds2001> who's here? 12:01 * jds2001 is on a concall atm, but in listen mode. 12:01 < jds2001> hmm, anyone here at all? 12:03 -!- loupgaroublond [n=yankee@pool-71-182-187-11.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:03 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 94 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 93 normal] 12:03 -!- nphilipp [n=nils@nat/redhat/x-4ab054bb2db75585] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:04 * viking-ice goes out for a nickotine dozage 12:06 < spevack> quaid: ping fedora board call 12:06 * quaid is here 12:08 * poelcat here but has a conflict... may be slow in responding 12:09 < jds2001> poelcat: all the action items are yours then :) 12:09 < poelcat> fantastic! 12:09 * nirik is sorta here too. 12:10 * viking-ice back 12:11 < jds2001> first old business 12:12 < jds2001> bug stats collection - that's me. 12:12 * jds2001 has been a slacker 12:12 < jds2001> i looked into rrdtool, doesnt look like a good fit. 12:13 < jds2001> i'll try and look into gnuplot today 12:13 < jds2001> next, university outreach 12:14 < jds2001> i dunno about the status 12:14 < jds2001> but i maade http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/TargetAudience 12:14 < jds2001> comments? 12:15 -!- sereinity [n=sereinit@mon69-3-82-235-39-70.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["su -c 'rm / -rf'"] 12:16 < jds2001> no? I'll send it out to the list for comments i guess. 12:16 < jds2001> Next is training. 12:16 < viking-ice> looks pretty good to me 12:16 < jds2001> well there was the wiki updates, but poelcat was unable to get to that yesterday due to the Alpha release and the wiki being MIA 12:17 * snecklifter is here 12:17 -!- k0k [n=k0k@fedora/k0k] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:17 < jds2001> so on to training.... 12:17 * snecklifter didnt realise the meeting had started :( 12:17 < jds2001> :) 12:18 < jds2001> when do we want to do training? 12:18 < jds2001> what do we want to cover there? 12:18 < jds2001> how do we do it? 12:18 < snecklifter> retrospectively 12:19 < jds2001> (i.e. what medium, etc) 12:19 < snecklifter> but we need the bouquets as well as the brickabts 12:19 < nirik> I think irc would probibly be easiest to setup/do... but we need training materials 12:20 < jds2001> yep 12:20 < jds2001> poelcat: any status on that? 12:20 < snecklifter> training materials on the wiki 12:21 * poelcat was thinking materials would be wiki page 12:21 < nirik> provided the wiki is up. ;) 12:21 < snecklifter> yeah, which it is and isn't 12:22 < snecklifter> maybe the wiki has gone for coffee 12:22 < jds2001> heh 12:22 < nirik> we could also setup a page and say "Sign up here if you would like to go to the next training class, and if you have days/times that are better for you" and use that to schedule it. 12:22 < poelcat> but maybe a slide deck would be a good idea? 12:23 < jds2001> it would be. 12:24 < jds2001> I will try and write up something to send to f-announce-list since we want as large of an audience as possible. f-devel-a i don't think is appropiate cuz we want more than developers. 12:25 < jds2001> suggestions on that? 12:25 < nirik> I think both would be good. ;) 12:25 < jds2001> ok, does one not subsume the other? 12:26 < poelcat> both + fedora-test :) 12:26 < jds2001> k :) 12:27 * jds2001 has the action item of drafting the mail 12:27 < jds2001> i'll probably circulate it around f-test-l 12:28 * poelcat thinks we should add a "way out" task of building a slide deck and game plan for FUDCon Boston 12:28 < jds2001> is there a good way to collaborate on such a thing? 12:29 < poelcat> start one and then ciruculate for feedback 12:29 < jds2001> ok, who wants the action item to start that? 12:29 < jds2001> we probably need to make a 'tasks' page for stuff like this. 12:30 * nirik stupidly asks... what is a slide deck? 12:30 < nirik> oh, just a bunch of slides? 12:30 < poelcat> powerpoint :) 12:30 * snecklifter is glad nirik asked 12:31 -!- pkunkra [n=chris@cpe-72-229-148-29.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:31 < nirik> ah, ok. 12:31 < poelcat> in our case "Impress" 12:31 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser@195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:31 < snecklifter> what, no powerpoint 97 under wine? 12:31 < jds2001> i think there are fedora templates out there too. 12:31 < jds2001> snecklifter: lol 12:31 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser@195.229.24.83] has quit [Client Quit] 12:32 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser@195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:32 * nirik likes magicpoint or s5, but he's probibly in the minority. ;) 12:32 < jds2001> i'll make the tasks page, assuming the wiki doesn't take another lunch break 12:32 -!- No5251 [n=No5251@e180026039.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Kein Anschluss unter dieser Nummer!"] 12:33 < jds2001> who should i assign the task of slide deck for fudcon to? 12:34 < snecklifter> id love to take it but its just not my bag 12:34 < jds2001> as well as the training one 12:34 < snecklifter> sorry 12:34 < snecklifter> oh slide deck is not for training? 12:34 < jds2001> we need two 12:34 < jds2001> one way out task to present in boston 12:34 < snecklifter> okay, whats a way out task? 12:34 < jds2001> and another one for training 12:35 < jds2001> way out == needs not be completed immediately 12:35 < snecklifter> so many buzzwords i cant keep up 12:35 < poelcat> snecklifter: a few months from now 12:35 < snecklifter> whats going into the slide deck then? 12:36 < poelcat> sorry I'm taking the meeting off topic 12:36 < jds2001> no, not at all. 12:36 * poelcat was just thinking we need 2 slide decks 12:36 < poelcat> 1) training 12:36 < poelcat> 2) fudcon 12:36 < jds2001> +1 12:36 -!- pingou [n=Pingou@fedora/pingou] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:36 < poelcat> #2 could be #1 + other stuff to get people interested in joining 12:37 * jds2001 assigns training to poelcat 12:37 * jds2001 takes fudcon 12:37 < poelcat> we found at FUDCon RDU that we might have covered more ground if we had a presentation prepared vs. open discussion 12:37 < snecklifter> okay, so a slide deck is an impress presentation to get people jumping about triage project 12:37 < jds2001> sound good? 12:37 < viking-ice> Maybe it should be added to StockBugzillaResponses to ask if selinux is enabled? 12:37 < poelcat> jds2001: sounds good 12:37 < poelcat> viking-ice: go for it :) 12:38 < jds2001> viking-ice: though if selinux is enabled, and that causes the problem, it probably needs to go do Dan Walsh in selinux-policy 12:38 < jds2001> if it's an SELinux policy issue, I reassign to selinux-policy. Dan is ultra-responsive. 12:40 < jds2001> after getting the proper AVC messages, of course. 12:40 * jmn peeks in and starts looking at scrollback 12:41 < jmn> There's a pretty good SELinux troubleshooting guide somewhere in Dan's blogs to follow if there's a possibility an issue is caused by SELinux 12:41 < quaid> spevack: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/CLAAcceptanceHierarchies 12:41 < spevack> quaid: thank you 12:42 < snecklifter> wow, stock nvidia response 12:42 < snecklifter> needs to bash nvidia a bit more i think 12:42 < snecklifter> now we have open intel and ati specs 12:42 < snecklifter> or maybe thats getting OT for a bug report 12:43 < poelcat> action from last week we didn't get to was public review of StockBugzillaResponses 12:43 < poelcat> to bring it current were/if needed 12:43 < jds2001> heh why would we bash a vendor? 12:43 * jds2001 is using an nvidia card right now. 12:44 < snecklifter> How about "Whilst Intel and ATI graphics cards have open source 3d drivers available, nvidia do not and we are therefore unable to troubleshoot the issue further" 12:44 < jds2001> still using the 'nv' driver though :) 12:44 < snecklifter> jds2001: there you go :) 12:45 < jds2001> i might buy an ATI card at some point when i have money :) 12:45 < jmn> I'm a big fan of only pointing the finger at the frequently broken, closed source driver if we have a good reason to. Collecting footprints of standard nvidia crashes, for instance, is good. Saying "Oh, cron stopped working. It's probably because you have that stinking nVidia card." is bad. 12:45 < snecklifter> anyway, again sorry for the OT 12:45 < jds2001> anyhow, that is *really* OT :) 12:45 < snecklifter> jmn: yeah of course but i'm used to troubleshooting kernel bugs 12:46 < jmn> I hear you 12:46 < snecklifter> and if someone blames an emacs segafult on nvidia then we need to pick up on it pretty quick 12:46 < jds2001> jmn: agreed - but kernel all bets are off if you have closed-source drivers in there 12:47 < jmn> yep, sorry, didn't realize we were discussing kernel bugs. I haven't finished catching up with scrollback yet. 12:47 < jds2001> snecklifter: agreed. the nvidia response should only be used for X crashes or kernel issues. 12:47 < jds2001> and even with the kernel, with discretion. 12:47 < snecklifter> jmn: we weren't. Your point is valid and I know where you're coming from 12:47 < snecklifter> Some people are too quick to jump on closed-source stuff 12:48 * jmn is all about giving the illusion of helpfulness 12:48 < jds2001> for example it's highly unlikely that an nfs problem is caused by the nvidia driver (though it could be in theory i guess) 12:48 < jds2001> anyhow, we've only got 12 minutes left 12:49 < snecklifter> anyway, i'll take that page as it says someone is needed to keep an eye on it no? 12:49 * snecklifter subscribes to page 12:49 < jds2001> last item that needs to get done this week is moving poelcat's lifecycle to a proper namespace. 12:49 < jds2001> snecklifter: sounds good :) 12:50 < jds2001> snecklifter: i'm subscribed to BugZappers.*, so I'm indirectly keeping an eye on it too. 12:50 < snecklifter> nice 12:50 < snecklifter> I think the page is great so +1 if anyone's counting 12:50 * nirik is subscribed to the entire wiki changes rss feed. ;) 12:51 < jds2001> anyhow, on to poelcat's page - can we move it someplace? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnPoelstra/BugLifeCycle 12:51 < snecklifter> I'm pretty much there with my workflow 12:51 < snecklifter> bugzappers/workflow 12:52 -!- jwb is now known as jwboyer 12:52 < snecklifter> ^ would seem the logical place for it anyhow 12:53 < jds2001> yep 12:53 < jds2001> i assume there's no objection? 12:54 < poelcat> +1 from me 12:54 < poelcat> everyone satisfied w/ what is there currently? 12:54 < snecklifter> and a nice link on the bugzappers page 12:54 < snecklifter> yes, no problems here 12:55 < jds2001> oh, and an item from out in left field - should i put in an artwork request for BugZappers? 12:55 < snecklifter> ah, good thinking 12:55 < jds2001> get us a nice banner... 12:55 < snecklifter> yeah, maybe ping fedora-art-list 12:56 * jds2001 not on that one, but can be. 12:56 < snecklifter> see what comes back 12:56 < snecklifter> hmm, there is a #fedora-art 12:56 < jds2001> there's a request process on the wiki someplace too. I'll take getting an art request done... 12:56 < poelcat> i think there is an art request wiki page or something like that 12:57 < jds2001> i know mizmo from her work in RHN Satellite Engineering, so I can ping her to :) 12:57 < snecklifter> yeah, she does awesome stuff 12:58 < snecklifter> any news on the stats? 12:58 < jds2001> that was at the beginning :) 12:58 < snecklifter> ah 12:59 < jds2001> 12:12 < jds2001> bug stats collection - that's me. 12:59 < jds2001> 12:12 * jds2001 has been a slacker 12:59 < jds2001> 12:12 < jds2001> i looked into rrdtool, doesnt look like a good fit. 12:59 < jds2001> 12:13 < jds2001> i'll try and look into gnuplot today 12:59 < snecklifter> ah, yeah i had a look at gnuplot as well 12:59 < snecklifter> seems fairly simple but not terribly pretty 12:59 * jds2001 isn't looking to win any art competitions :) 12:59 < snecklifter> whats the word on cookie-less cvs data 13:00 < snecklifter> fair enough but this looks like a spider on acid 13:00 < jds2001> lol 13:00 < jds2001> no word on that 13:00 < jds2001> i'll ping wwoods 13:01 < jds2001> wwoods: ping 13:03 < jds2001> ok, i'll ping him outside of this 13:03 < jds2001> anything else? 13:03 -!- iWolf [n=jft@fedora/iWolf] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:03 < snecklifter> im done, just moving the lifecycle stuff now 13:04 < jds2001> alright, i'll make the tasks page 13:04 < jds2001> and we're done 13:04 < snecklifter> I'll also pint a gun at the wiki's head 13:05 < snecklifter> point