12:03 < jds2001> alrighty then, who's still around for this fun?
12:03  * snecklifter is here
12:04  * nirik is here. 
12:04  * inode0 is here for uncertain reasons
12:04  * poelcat here
12:04  * wwoods is here.. ish
12:05  * owentl is here
12:05  * EvilBob is here still
12:05 < jds2001> alrigh - first I'm happy to report that the bug count is below 13,000 for all releases of Fedora!
12:05 < jds2001> 12,922 as of a few minutes ago
12:05 < nirik> cool... from what high point?
12:06 < jds2001> i think when i started it was around 13,500
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12:06 < nirik> Cool...
12:07 < jds2001> full stats can be found at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/Meetings/Agenda-2008-Jan-23
12:07  * snecklifter takes all the credit as this is clearly down to kernel bugs
12:07 < jds2001> i just put em there
12:07 -!- dwmw2_gone is now known as dwmw2_ULN
12:08  * inode0 reads link and knows why he is here now
12:08 < jds2001> next is why inode0 is here....let's brainstorm about ways to get university students involved
12:08 < poelcat> wasn't there someone that posts to the fedora lists about running special debug version of certain programs and resporting results?
12:09 < poelcat> he was from a university as part of a class he taught
12:09 < snecklifter> current channels into academia are what?
12:09 < jds2001> inode0 is a channel into iastate
12:09 < inode0> unviersity folks have been chatting with some RH and Fedora folks on the redhat academic list about various things including how to promote student involvement
12:09 -!- fcrippa [n=fcrippa@host124-185-dynamic.45-213-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:09 < snecklifter> inode0: that would be a good start then
12:09 < wwoods> poelcat: that's CBI, the Cooperative Bug Isolation project
12:10 < wwoods> http://www.cs.wisc.edu/cbi/
12:10 < snecklifter> yum-utils has debuginfo-install utility
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12:10 < inode0> we want to reach out to artists and other non-traditional contributors
12:10 < poelcat> I wonder if students there would be interested in helping out
12:10 < snecklifter> which installs all debuginfo packages required for stack traces
12:10 < jds2001> hmm, didnt know about that snecklifter 
12:10 < snecklifter> http://www.chruz.com/2008/01/22/when-firefox-crashes-and-burns/
12:11 < inode0> these students tend to just not know about opportunities or if they do who to talk to about them
12:11 < snecklifter> jds2001: just blogged about it yesterday but is very useful and needs more prominence
12:11  * nirik loves debuginfo-install... makes it very nice to ask reporters to duplicate. 
12:12 < poelcat> nirik: is there a wiki page on how to use it?
12:12 < snecklifter> so the uni students could debug as a way of understanding how apps and OS works
12:12 < jds2001> or even not that
12:12 < inode0> others at MIT and elsewhere are also interested in helping mentor students at least in the area of matching students up with projects they could contribute to
12:12 < jds2001> those would be so-called traditional contirbutor
12:12 < nirik> poelcat: not sure. It's basically just 'yum install yum-utils; debuginfo-install packagename' and it will install debuginfo for package and everything it depends on.
12:12 < snecklifter> poelcat: not really, just debuginfo-install kernel
12:13  * nirik loves the idea of getting students more involved... 
12:13 < snecklifter> or whatever app
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12:13 < inode0> we are looking for some help in getting the word out to campus as most of "us" don't have much direct contact with these students
12:13 < snecklifter> should be a good first start for uni students
12:13 < poelcat> what about involvement from Seneca--I think it was ctyler I met at fudcon
12:14 < jds2001> Seneca would be an excellent place since they already have a program
12:14 < snecklifter> universities tend to have good bandwidth as well so d/l all debuginfo stuff shouldn't hopefully be an issue
12:14 < jds2001> but again, those are going to be more "traditional" type folks
12:14 < jds2001> at seneeca that is.
12:14 < snecklifter> A lot of LUGS are run in conjunction with universities...
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12:15 < inode0> we need to promote involvement with more traditional students too, just don't want it to just be CS and ENGR people we reach out to
12:15  * snecklifter will mail some local lug lists and see what the response is
12:15 < poelcat> so it sounds like we need a list of people and then we create a wiki summarizing our pitch to point folks to?
12:15 < inode0> lugs where I am reach a tiny number of the traditional student category and zero from outside it
12:16 < snecklifter> poelcat: yes, with specific academia-oriented stuff
12:16 < inode0> poelcat: and if the wiki could be more open to all of fedora that would be great
12:16 < jds2001> the question that we have - how to best market ourselves to academia
12:17 < jds2001> inode0: not sure what you mean there?
12:17 < inode0> the art team could certainly have contributors from student artists
12:17 < inode0> SoC projects need to reach students so they are aware of them
12:17 < snecklifter> jds2001: easy, andrew morton said the best way to learn (kernel) programming is to fix bugs
12:17 < inode0> and so on
12:18 < snecklifter> so there's the pitch I guess
12:18 < snecklifter> In a whole distribution every aspect of CS can be addressed
12:18 < jds2001> yea, but keep in mind that the demographic that we're trying to reach is not going to be able to or even interested in fixing any sort of bugs
12:18 < snecklifter> so games programmers can check out games bugs etc
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12:18 < jds2001> my target demographic for this outreach is non-coders
12:19 < nirik> but they should be fedora users, right?
12:19 < jds2001> they should be, yes.
12:19 < snecklifter> jds2001: oh?
12:19 < jds2001> snecklifter: you dont need to know how to write a line of code in order to effectively triage.
12:19 < inode0> my goal is just to reach out to talented young people and make them aware of the philosophy and opportunities available, both technical and non-technical
12:20 < snecklifter> jds2001: accepted but i thought this was the reason for specifically aiming at students
12:20 < jds2001> snecklifter: the aim at students is more that there's a huge population there that goes untapped
12:20 < inode0> basic triaging is one of the places someone intimidated by more technical things could help some
12:20 < jds2001> and pretty much everywhere else, too.
12:21 < inode0> and while helping gain confidence in more technical contributions as well
12:21 < snecklifter> okay, then lets put together that wiki page and review it at next week's meeting?
12:21 < poelcat> +1
12:22 < jds2001> yep
12:22 < nirik> +1
12:22 < jds2001> inode0: probably need your help with that
12:22 < snecklifter> cool, perhaps we should move on as time is moving...
12:22 < jds2001> this is going to be a "who are we targeting" type thihg.
12:22 < inode0> jds2001: ok, we can talk later about details
12:22 < jds2001> yeah, i dindt realize the time :)
12:23 < snecklifter> no wonder the qa people overrun :)
12:23 < snecklifter> next, wiki cleanup perhaps?
12:23 < jds2001> lol they took 2 hours :)
12:23 < jds2001> yes
12:23 < snecklifter> poelcat: awesome job on that, jds2001 tells me it is all your work
12:23 < poelcat> i've made some progress... would like to help with more
12:23 < poelcat> but I need a deadline or it will never get done :)
12:24 < snecklifter> okay, next weeks meeting :)
12:24 < poelcat> lol
12:24 < poelcat> okay
12:24 < jds2001> hehe do you need some help or are you better left alone?
12:24 < poelcat> hmm
12:24 < poelcat> hard to say
12:24 < poelcat> my goal is to keep it really simple and streamlined
12:24 < snecklifter> poelcat: nice
12:24 < poelcat> with bite-szie pages
12:24 < snecklifter> +1
12:25 < poelcat> not the pages that scroll 4-10 pages deep
12:25 < jmn> Is there a list of root pages that we'd like to target for cleanup (for those of us who are new here and haven't paid enough attention to the Wiki)?
12:25 < poelcat> and filled with too much unnecessary info
12:25 < jds2001> +1
12:25 < snecklifter> keep talking baby
12:25 < jds2001> jmn: here we're just talking about the bug triage pages
12:25 < poelcat> just a sec
12:25 < jmn> "the bug triage pages" sort of works here :)
12:26 < poelcat> i'm keeping a map here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnPoelstra/TriageIdeas1
12:26 < poelcat> at the top
12:26 < snecklifter> jmn: we're hoping to get things down to a central point
12:26 < jmn> Of course.  I love it when a CPA crosses over to high tech.
12:26 < poelcat> ideally there is little to no overlap in topics... use hrefs to other pages
12:26 < jds2001> snecklifter: I've been meaning to do that to the kernel triage page as well
12:26 < snecklifter> I'll chat to the kernel bods about moving the kernel one
12:26 < snecklifter> jds2001: heh
12:26 < jds2001> it needs to go on a diet :)
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12:27 < snecklifter> jds2001: If there is redundant stuff then lose it but I refer to it a lot
12:28 < poelcat> what do people think about a special wiki page focused on bugzilla queries
12:28 < poelcat> to target different cross sections of bugs to triage?
12:28 < jds2001> well like the assignee stuff can go on it's own page
12:28 < jds2001> +1
12:28 < poelcat> AND can someone provide said query links? :)
12:28 < snecklifter> poelcat: +1
12:28 < jds2001> hehe i've had that action item since Sat
12:29  * jmn volunteers to help
12:29 < jds2001> and i still havne't done a heck of a lot with it.
12:29 < snecklifter> like at the top of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KernelBugTriage ?
12:29 < poelcat> jds2001: you mean you didn't work all day sat and sun like last week?
12:29 < jds2001> snecklifter: yep, something like that
12:29 < poelcat> ;-)
12:29 < snecklifter> with links to F7 bugs?
12:30 < snecklifter> I like that, perhaps we could diversify by package base group such as Sound & Video, Office etc
12:30 < jds2001> F7, F8, and rawhide
12:30 < nirik> there are some links in the package report...
12:30 < snecklifter> Okay, I'll bag that task for next week
12:31 < jds2001> speaking of the package report a link to a report of maintainers would be nice too. <mental note>
12:31 < nirik> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/PackageStatus
12:31 < poelcat> snecklifter: i stubbed out a page called BugZappers/FindingBugs
12:31 < nirik> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/PackageStatus#head-181b0c70022aca0d7aa42d42f7ed12a553189882
12:31 < jds2001> the "maintainers that need help" thing
12:32 < snecklifter> poelcat: great, I'll use that
12:33  * nirik has noticed that pirut gets a ton of misfiled bugs... we can really help there with marking dups and refiling to the right component. 
12:33 < snecklifter> nirik: what for?
12:33 < snecklifter> sorry i meant what is pirut getting the bugs from
12:33 < snecklifter> or what app should be getting them?
12:34 < nirik> well, people don't know the component name. I have seen them filed against p0f, the aaa* component thats at the top of the list, distribution, etc.
12:34 < jds2001> snecklifter: alot of them are yum bugs
12:34 < snecklifter> ah thought that might be it
12:34 < nirik> yeah, and that too.
12:35 < jds2001> imho there should be "meta-categories" like software update, etc
12:35 < nirik> yeah, that would be nice...
12:35 < snecklifter> hey, then we'd be out of a job :)
12:36 < jds2001> hehe
12:36 < snecklifter> If wiki stuff is all done can I mention installer bugs
12:36 < jds2001> sure
12:36 < snecklifter> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=242956
12:36 < buggbot> Bug 242956: urgent, urgent, ---, Kernel Maintainer List, CLOSED CANTFIX, F7 CDROM installation method fails to recognize CD/DVD drive
12:37 < jds2001> that bug is a trainwreck
12:37 < snecklifter> jds2001: you knows it
12:37 < snecklifter> Does everyone think closing it in this method is fair?
12:38 < jds2001> well, Alan specifically stated he plans to do nothing about it.
12:38 < snecklifter> Alan Cox seemed to think so as did you jds2001
12:38 < snecklifter> My question is what happens with the inevitable F9 installer bug
12:38 < jds2001> or rather with that particular bug
12:39 < jds2001> split em out as best we can and have em block a metabug
12:39 < snecklifter> Someone starts one and every other person who cant install CC's themselves
12:39 < snecklifter> jds2001: catch them before they grow too big like the above?
12:39 < jds2001> yep
12:39 < EvilBob> Umm, that bug was fixed by Unity's Re-Spins using a newer kernel IIRC
12:40 < jmn> +1 for quick triage while the train is still on the track
12:40 < snecklifter> okay fair enough
12:40 < jds2001> note snecklifter and my suggestions to use a respin
12:40 < snecklifter> EvilBob: yeah, he seems to be refusing to test
12:40 < snecklifter> so maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill
12:40 < jds2001> and wanting codepaths to fix every possible regression
12:41 < EvilBob> If "we" (Unity) can be let know about these kind of bugs we will track them and fix them as we can
12:41 < wwoods> yeah, seriously, quick triage to split different bugs into actual different reports would go a long way
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12:42 < snecklifter> EvilBob: okay, will see how we can co-ordinate that
12:42 < jmn> The mentality should be to open a new bug unless there is absolute proof that it's a dup.
12:42 < EvilBob> feel free to cc me bob@fedoraunity.org on these kind of things
12:42 < snecklifter> EvilBob: sounds good, it just depends on me remembering to do it
12:42 < jds2001> jmn: i agree, it's just that reporters dont feel that way sometimes.
12:42 < EvilBob> snecklifter: sure
12:42 < snecklifter> :/
12:42 < jmn> jds2001: Well, that's where we come in :).
12:43 < jds2001> they'll just tack on to another existing report....
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12:43 < snecklifter> EvilBob: are you okay on me adding your contact details to the wiki in regards to installer bugs then?
12:43 < EvilBob> snecklifter: yes
12:44 < snecklifter> okay, well I'm happy, next topic?
12:44 < jds2001> there is a FCMETA_INSTALL too
12:44 < jds2001> i dunno how useful that is at this point, maybe just make a new one for F9
12:44 < snecklifter> jds2001: ah yeah I used that a lot
12:45 < EvilBob> snecklifter: by leading the Spin team for unity, working with the anaconda and kernel guys for ideas is not a problem
12:45 < inode0> after getting a bunch of new bzs flagged as dups reporters start trying to avoid that too
12:46 < snecklifter> EvilBob: awesome - of course it would be good to get stuff fixed for release but Unity stuff has been a great solution for a lot of people
12:46 < snecklifter> EvilBob: Torrents would be awesome however as jigdo seems to intimidate some
12:47 < jds2001> well in the QA meeting it was just mentioned that infinite resources aren't there :)
12:47 < jds2001> snecklifter: i thought the unity folks were talking about getting iso's on the mirrors
12:47 < EvilBob> snecklifter: when it comes to that we do not have the resources needed to seed
12:47 < snecklifter> jds2001: news to me but +1
12:48 < jds2001> wwoods for example doesn't have dmraid hardware to test with....
12:48 < snecklifter> torrents are fire-and-forget d/ling which most seem to prefer
12:48 < inode0> is unity separately mirrored?
12:48 < EvilBob> jds2001: it is something we are working for, and if BT appens with that we are all for it
12:48 < EvilBob> inode0: yes
12:49 < inode0> lots of unis can help with mirror ... torrents are more problematic for us politically
12:49 < EvilBob> inode0: Unity is totally separate from Fedora Project
12:49 < inode0> ok, I'll poke our mirror person
12:49 < EvilBob> inode0: thanks
12:49 < EvilBob> did not mean to derail the meeting
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12:50 < jds2001> not a problem
12:50 < snecklifter> bugzilla stats, whats the latest and do we want them?
12:50 -!- owentl [n=owentl@c-98-195-5-158.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:50 < jds2001> i think we agreed that we needed them at our last meeting
12:51 < jds2001> i was going to look into throwing some stuff into rrdtool
12:51 < snecklifter> jds2001: which I wasn't at <hides>
12:51 < snecklifter> mea culpa
12:51 < jds2001> for now, it's on the agenda wiki page for each meeting
12:51 < jds2001> lol the logs are published :)
12:51 < snecklifter> nice
12:51 < jds2001> read your mail :)
12:52 < poelcat> jds2001: can you include stats from previous collection so that we an see context/trend?
12:52 < snecklifter> nah, all goes /dev/null
12:52 < snecklifter> any news on getting csv reports from bugzilla de-cookified?
12:53 < jds2001> wwoods: ping
12:53 < poelcat> IOW create a separate table for each release and then each column will be the date
12:53 < jds2001> ok, that'll work....
12:54 < wwoods> what?
12:54 < wwoods> csv reports from bugzilla, eh
12:54 < snecklifter> had an interesting few moments with gnuplot earlier trying to get a graph going?
12:54 < jds2001> i want my csv reports de-cookified :)
12:54 < snecklifter> wwoods: yah
12:54 < wwoods> I'll ask dkl
12:54 < wwoods> when he gets back from lunch
12:54 -!- giallu [n=giallu@81-174-9-209.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #fedora-meeting
12:54 < jds2001> also i way to save them so that I don't used 1.3K for each URL :)
12:55 < jds2001> that's pretty monsterous for a URL :)
12:55 < snecklifter> you can just grab it from a url file
12:55 < jds2001> that's what i do  :)
12:56 < snecklifter> if we can get the data out of bugzilla w/o cookies then we should be laughing
12:57 < snecklifter> 3 mins left
12:57 < jds2001> well i can grab the data ung my ff cookies, but then the next time i use ff it complains that the cookies are bogus
12:57 < snecklifter> jds2001: yep, same here
12:57 < snecklifter> tried cp, rsync to copy but firefox seems to know the cookies have been touched
12:57 < jds2001> no, it's not ff that complains for me, it's bugzilla
12:57 < snecklifter> and we need to run it from server ideally so no need for ff login
12:58 < snecklifter> sorry, i meant bz
12:58 < jds2001> anyhow, anyoine skilled in pyGTK wanna write a triage client?
12:59 < jds2001> wwoods and i tossed around the idea at fudcon, but no one has time :)
12:59 < snecklifter> Not my area of expertise and since the bz update its running faster so I'm pretty happy with browser interface
12:59 < jds2001> poelcat: anything else we need to discuss here?
12:59 < wwoods> It'd be a rad summer of code project, probably
13:00 < poelcat> jds2001: think that is it... next week plan to review wiki pages and set some training dates?
13:00 < snecklifter> I'm done. That went quick
13:00 < jds2001> snecklifter: this would integrate koji, bodhi, bz, pkgdb, etc
13:01 < snecklifter> jds2001: someone is working on something like that
13:01 < poelcat> assuming training would be based on and point to wiki pages
13:01 < snecklifter> maybe J5
13:01 < poelcat> jds2001: also the bug life cycle is up up for review at FESCo on thurs
13:01 < nirik> jds2001: we should come up with a requirements for fedorabugs? its been suggested we just require cla_done and approve anyone who does that until there is a problem...
13:02 < poelcat> that would be good to have ready for Thurs' meeting too
13:02 < snecklifter> nirik: sounds good - will they need a mentor or some such?
13:02 < jds2001> nirik: forgot about that.  That sounds somewhat reasonable for me.
13:03 < nirik> well, adding the overhead of sponsorship might cause some people to not want to join and help...
13:03 < jds2001> a mentor would be nice, though (aka sponsor, but maybe a little less formal that package maintainers, etc)
13:03 < jds2001> not really an overhead - you jsut apply for membership sponsors get mail, approve, and mentor
13:03 < snecklifter> well, perhaps we could CC ourselves into their bugs for a bit
13:03 < nirik> whats involved in mentoring though? ]
13:03 < snecklifter> or one of us at least
13:04 < nirik> watching bugzilla for their changes?
13:04 < snecklifter> I think there is a watch email address option in bz
13:04 < snecklifter> nirik: thats it
13:04 < jds2001> mentoring could be as simple as "ping me if you need help"
13:04 < nirik> thats a lot of overhead on the mentor part.
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13:04 < nirik> yeah, I would support that fine...
13:04 < snecklifter> I'm okay with it - it would only be for a week or so to make sure they're not going nuts
13:05 < nirik> well, we have 39 people waiting in the queue. You want to watch all their bugzilla activity?
13:05 < jds2001> nirik: i'll probably do that for ppl that i approve anyways.
13:05 < snecklifter> nirik: 39 people waiting for fedorabugs access?
13:05 < nirik> jds2001: cool... :)
13:05 < nirik> snecklifter: yes
13:05 < jds2001> i can do all of those tonight.
13:05 < poelcat> nirik: were you going to look at finding out how to modify bugbot?
13:06 < snecklifter> wow, didn't realise that
13:06 < jds2001> just check em for cla_done first....
13:06 < nirik> jds2001: did the one person you approved go thru correctly?
13:06 < jds2001> nirik: i think so, havent heard from him
13:06 < snecklifter> it would be good to get those cleared
13:06 < nirik> yeah.
13:06 < jds2001> i mean FAS took it fine.
13:06 < nirik> oh, was meaning to ask... what buggbot mod did you guys need? or should we take it to fedora-qa since time here is up?
13:07 < jds2001> and I get mail anytime someone applies...
13:07 < poelcat> nirik: i was thinking put it in a special channel
13:07 < snecklifter> Where is the list of people waiting for approval?
13:07 < poelcat> nirik: only report on bugs in NEW or that meet criteria we care about
13:08 < poelcat> the existing one is info_overload + stuff we don't care about
13:08 < nirik> poelcat: ok, mkant is the one to talk to about that. I can drop him an email since I seldom see him on irc
13:08 < poelcat> nirik: excellent
13:08 < nirik> snecklifter: in the fedora account system...
13:08 < poelcat> jds2001: re: fedorabugs we should iron out wiki pages on that
13:08 < poelcat> so people know exactly what to do and expect
13:09  * nirik nods
13:09 < jds2001> ok, i need to figure that out myself :)
13:09 < jds2001> cuz after my membership was approved, i didnt have all of the access that i needed, but it magically came later
13:09 < jds2001> i'll probably make a dummy acct in FAS just to check.
13:10 < nirik> there is a wait between approval of fedorabugs and bugzilla knowing about it.
13:10 < nirik> (cron job run or something)
13:10 < jds2001> right, abotu an hour.
13:10 < jds2001> i had membership in fedora_contrib after that time
13:10 < snecklifter> jds2001: you're a sponsor in FAS?
13:10 < jds2001> but not in like editbugs which is what you need.
13:10 < jds2001> snecklifter: yes
13:11 < jds2001> for fedoraabugs
13:13 < snecklifter> hmm, i'm not - just tried to apply and FAS spat the dummy with python errors
13:13 < jds2001> i'll probably make me a new FAS acct tonight, just to verify the process.
13:13 < jds2001> apply?   You're already a member?
13:13 < jds2001> that would be why it spat python garbage
13:13 < snecklifter> user, not sponsor
13:14 < jds2001> oh, i *may* be able to fix that.  If not, poelcat or nirik can
13:14 < snecklifter> go for it
13:14 < nirik> snecklifter: you want to be a sponsor there too? I have no idea what criteria we are using for that, but I can probibly make you a sponsor.
13:15 < nirik> might be best to ping Fesco tomorrow and formalize that, or at least get the go ahead for me to make people sponsors there.
13:15 < snecklifter> nirik: if you can make it happen it would be good
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13:15 < nirik> sponsors are good because you get the email about new people applying. Admins for the groups don't.
13:15 < snecklifter> okay, can ping bpepple to bring it up tomorrow?
13:16 < nirik> snecklifter: sure, or I can bring it up in the free discussion... or we can tack it on to the bug lifecycle thing?
13:17 -!- jnettlet [n=jnettlet@c-76-118-159-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
13:17 < jds2001> let's tack it onto the lifecycle discussion
13:17 < snecklifter> It would be good if a few of us will be watching new triagers
13:17 < nirik> for buggbot would it make sense to just have people do irc filters for #fedorabot for just triage things? then the info isn't duplicated and people don't need another channel?
13:18 < snecklifter> Wierd, I thought I had sponsor in fas already
13:18 < jds2001> maybe....
13:18 < poelcat> nirik: that's a cool idea... how would that work?
13:18 < nirik> in fedorabugs? unlikely... there were only admins and users before... jds2001 is the only sponsor currently.
13:18 < poelcat> nirik can you supress/filter input for a particular channel?
13:19 < nirik> poelcat: problem might be all the varied irc clients people use... probibly have different ways to filter.
13:19 < nirik> yeah, xchat has something to do that.
13:19  * poelcat uses irsii and supresses all joins/leaves, etc.
13:19 < poelcat> makes channels quiet and clean
13:19 < jds2001> poelcat: nice except when you wanna know when folks come and go :)
13:20 < jds2001> i've got a $dayjob meeting in 10 minutesw
13:20 < snecklifter> speaking of which, its dinner time in merry england so unless there are any other topics?
13:20 -!- spoleeba [n=one@fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-meeting
13:20 < jds2001> i'll post the log immediately and probably minutes later tonight